The other day I was chatting with this American-returned Indian. Everyone would know from experience that they can be a frustrating lot. "The problem with India is that nobody wants change", he thundered. "Take litter for example..." and he went off into a spiel about how we are too lazy, and the streets are filthy etc.
So I said, "What's wrong with litter? I think its ok if there's litter in the streets." And he goes "See this is exactly the problem..." I don't think he got my point. And maybe you're wondering what the hell my point is, too.
Well, its this: I object to this mentality where you expect the streets to be clean when you step out on the road. I know one American who refused to come to India because she stepped on shit the first time she was here. So she refused to ever come back! This is something i don't understand.
Personally, I think its a good thing. There's a subway outside my office, and everytime i step out, the smell of piss knocks you sideways, and frequently people will come, unzip in front of everyone and do their thing. Its disgusting but its a good reminder, its a necessary reminder of what life is like for some people (as Bharat [Reporter saaar] pointed out, we should make a distinction here between people who don't have access to toilets and people who are just plain uncultured - I've seen one guy park his Ford Ikon on the side of the road and piss all over the sidewalk... these idiots have no excuse)
To get back to my point, it's so easy to get out of an airconditioned restaurant, step into an air conditioned car, and drive to your air conditioned office, and then to your centrally airconditioned house, without having any inkling of what life is like outside of that bubble.
Dont think for a minute that US is a country where 'the buildings, the sky and the air is sugar free' - there the slums are shoved into one corner and nobody bothers with it, its not on any of the tours, and you can safely live your life without ever coming into contact with it. Anybody read 'The Inscrutable Americans'? A lovely novel, great fun without shirking these little issues. Similarly in England - East London is a 'place to be avoided', and apparently Singapore is the same too.
I am so glad we are in a country which is not ashamed of its slums.
The second point from my conversation with this guy, is less to do with the American thing, and more to do with academicians. At the end of this heated debate, i was just telling him that i dont usually get into arguments because they rarely have a point. And he goes, "Why must everything have a point? Why can't we just argue for arguments sake?"
Typical academic, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that. Why are we shouting and ranting and raving at each other, why do we put up blogs and comment and fight if there's no point? Somewhere, there has to be some growth, some result. I'm not saying quit your job and start an NGO, but surely there has to be some gain? Why waste your emotion and energy on an argument for argument's sake?
On a personal level, this is kind of why I chose journalism over academics, though I love the latter more - its so easy to get trapped in a bubble of abstraction, instead of getting your hands dirty with life. This is a bit of a controversial stance, I admit, but that's my take on the issue. Plus, while I prepare to go off for a press conference at Taj, it also rings of hypocrisy. I recognise these problems, but essentially, I still stick to my point of view that the academicians trap is a dangerous one.
Lastly, with regard to my previous post - I said i dont understand why people are marching the streets cos of the reservation issue. Today, the newspaper headline screams out that 69 per cent reservation has been allocated for private institutions by our CM. This is complete bullshit, and I hope it never is implemented. I take back any pro-reservation statements I might have made. This would be one of the most crippling developments for the education system in the state if implemented. 20 per cent is ok. 69 per cent.... Sheesh.
83 comments:
Abhinav,
Glad to be the first one to be commenting here. The best point of the post was the difference between those plain uncultured stuff, as it were, and these Ford Ikons, who also eke out the streets with their urgencies. Sorry to sound like Larkin in one of his lesser poems, but then as you have said the US and the Westerners are so foolhardy and ignorant about how life is like for others.
I do not know if OUTREACH was part of your curriculum when you were in Loyola: it's a prog where we visit slums, and yes, do nothing much. Yet, it's actually a way of at least letting people - students - know that there are people at the other end of the divide.
Regarding your take to be a journo over being an academic, fine. I am going to be an academic - Linguistics is my discipline; check my blog for back-posts thereof - but I feel journalism has its own problems. Anyway, though I am not the greatest fan of the press, in one sense it's better than Academics - in that there's never too much ego to bust talking of which I seem to smell of a certain teacher at our college.
srini,
boy that was quick!
Anyways, outreach was indeed part of my programme at loyola. and we spent the programme playing goli with the slum boys, and buying mangai for 2 rupees and munching away.
and it was a far more valuable experience than going there and lecturing them on how they should educate their children.
in MA, the outreach programme took us to a village, and we did a lot of nothing, but again learnt a lot. on one occasion, we ate in a dalit household - the meal was sambar sadam and appalam. thats it. but it was absolutely delicious, probably because it was flavoured with the warmth of their hospitality.
those are the things you remember, so i think loyola's outreach programme is excellent, even if it doesn't run the way the college intends it.
sorry to disagree, but there's no excuse for filling your roads with filth. if we understand that road's aren't the place to dump garbage, this place's gonna get a lot cleaner. other than disgust, there's not one other emotion that comes to mind when i see a dirty road. There is no substitue for cleanliness...
but the reservation issue..well i give up..we're back to sqaure one with 69%reservation. as i said earlier..we have no hope..
and hey..check out my new post sometime..it's mindless nonsense once again :)
Abhinav,
Guess you are right, there. Most of the systems function - or mal-function - and whatever they do or not teach a lot of valuable lessons. Bravo!
Divya Nair,
Sorry... to start off with, for it might seem I am plainly contradictory but it's not so. Anyway,once again there's part yes and part no: it is irresponsible and filthy behaviour on the part of us urban dwellers to act the way we do, why do we single everybody out to say as if we have got the finest facilities? The point is - I think Abhinav was right in pointing it out - some people just don't have options... slum-dwellers along the railway lines... sure we all know what we are talking about. Unless facilities are provided - all be it, both private and public - they can't be taught hygeine. Though a little digression, I am tempted to quote one of my co-bloggers: what will you do teaching kids who are almost faint sitting in their classes, sharing one square meal or lesser with six members in their family? That leads us back to more problems, let's not get into that. The point is even though the roots are there to see, they are so clouded by vested deposits and ideological biases on top. As regards your point of "no excuses" well as an urban dweller, gun me down if you see me doing something filthy. That should be the attitude we must and can adopt and it's all that we can do.
good post da! i think a lot of ppl do fail to understand the lack of civic amenities and shoot their mouths off tryin to talk of hygiene. Something as basic as an amenity constitutes to hygiene or cleanliness. The sweeper of our roads unfortunately doesnt have any other place than the road to turn for for his best practices! nor do any of us in our cases, at my worst i have used a pepsi bottle, and im not ashamed of it, the beer had to come out someway!! and to set things right, southern america, oklahoma for instance, where i was, ppl do the same all the time, as "educated" as they may be!
srini,
i find it hard to believe that every speck of dirt, every plasitic cover on the road, and a lot more that goes into dirtying the place is solely due to people who belong to the not-so-priveleged sections of society. what about those morons who spit on the road..i mean how disgusting is that!!whats horrible is to see, a fairly educated, fully grown, adult male piss on the road. and i'm telling you, these fools would do the same even if we had public toilets provided every 10 mts!!
Divya,
I never said that the slum dwellers are responsible for all that. Agreed, it was my mistake to have placed the urban-dweller right below sans much of emphasis. Vis-a-vis these educated filthy packages, we call men, I am with you. Especially those who spit. Trust me some do it on buses and one of them got a good piece of my mind couple of days ago even without words. I gave him a long stare that lasted several seconds. As you say, these guys can't use meant-to-be-toilets... Alas! We are back on square one. Now, let's see... hmmm
Hey abhinav, you seem to come up with a different viewpoint with every post. I mean different from the usual accepted viewpoint.
I never thought of the whole littering thing that way... that some people can't help it. I guess we all get a little self-righteous sometimes!
I'm afraid I'm one of those people who just like to argue. Not the heated I'm-gonna-shove-my-opinion-down-your-throat type but a more calm type of argument. But yeah, I guess it IS kinda pointless because most people are unwilling to concede even if the other person's made a good point!
I have often wondered what it would be like to be born so poor that you had to walk first thing in the morning to the nearest bush or riverbed or seashore, which could be miles away or do it in the open as so many men, women and children have to everyday of their lives. Do you think you could be a normal person after that? Can the rules that apply to you and me apply to these unfortunate people? If this problem is not eliminated from our planet, what have we achieved, have we achieved anything at all?
@divya,
i think you're falling into the very trap that i was talking about in my post. it's all very well to say, garbage stinks and stop there. i'm only saying, look a little beyond - some slums are allocated on the banks of the cooum. how can you expect them to even understand what hygiene is all about?
in your later comment, you say "whats horrible is to see, a fairly educated, fully grown, adult male piss on the road" - but i made quite a clear distinction in my post between people who have no option and people who have no sense of hygiene.
@srini,
did he shrivel up and die in the ferocity of your gaze? lol... just kidding man..
i actually know someone who went and told some people not to spit on the road. the next day when the same man was walking by, they stood in a line and spat right in front of him on the road.. so you may want to watch out!
@yogi
thanks man... and i think you've put the whole thing in perspective...
a)the fact that it happens in the magic america as well, and
b) i think all of us, the guys at least, have been guilty of pissing in wierd places at least once in our lives. i remember when the first flyover was inaugurated five or six years back, at around midnight, a little drunk, me and my buddies 'inaugurated' it in our own way as well.
@jan,
i know! people argue for hours on end, and its not like either of their opinions are going to change.
ideally, people should have arguments, and you should allow various people's opinions shape your own in small ways... but that just doesnt work does it.
@abhorigine - you must have been typing the same time i was, cos i didnt see your comment when i began mine!
anyway, i did hear that when you're on a train to kolkata, you always see women in a line by the tracks performing their ablusions -and since they can't stop, they use their sarees to cover their faces. i mean, this is ridiculous -as you put it, have we achieved anything at all if we cant provide sanitation.
okay - for a change, I am going to ask you, "What do we do about this?" Abhinav... could we put up a board (saying, 'don't piss') and actually pitch in money to put up bright lights in front of (our office) and near the bus stand opposite our office? I think we'd do a world of good to bus-users there who come daily with their kerchiefs clamped on their noses - women included. What say?
Also, I am wondering if any technology has been developed (for example, to send up a mild electric current from the puddle up to the person doing the job) - just to dissuade him from doing it in certain places, such as Mount Road or whatever, whichever strata of society he belongs to.
lol...
a very imaginitive solution, that -a mild electric current from the puddle...
as for the 'don't piss' boards, if it has the same effect as the 'stick no bills' signs do...
@abhinav
all i'm saying is if a majority of the people did thier small, wee bit in keeping the place clean, then it would help.Like educated, economically not-so-challenged people...and as i said earlier, we don't live amidst filth solely because of people who have no option.
Abhinav
nice to get off R factor as Srini calls it. But you had to get back to that, see! Well, I tell you, no % is the best. If it's a dog eat dog world out there, let better pedigree of merit win over, I say! 20%, 69% - what the hell difference. You in your bubble say 20%, they out of the bubble say 69%. You see... the oppressed when they become non-oppressed wants to become oppressors and thus we are back to cave-man style head-bashing.
Anyway, nice to have a new post. I am with you all the way about these "phoren" returns. I mean... I can sort of understand a White man perspective, because they live in such Utopia in US. There was one American guy who left comments in one of my earlier blogs screaming "clean up your toilets, you @%@&*" at me. I just left a comment saying "clean up your &*%@##$@ without using paper". No point. And that thing about Ford Ikon doesn't work. Having status symbols and luxury stuff don't mean cultured. We know who rides all the Pulsars in the city, who used to ride the RX100s back then and who got crazed with Tata Sumos and now with Qualis. Those with money, not necessarily culture or etiquette.
Regarding arguments for arguments sake, couldn't agree with you more. That's why I took to theatre than academics. And I hate it sometimes when I have to put up with polite non-sense in schools!
In fact one reason why I make long comments. What's the point in an argument, if you can't say what you want openly. There I end this one!
Let me answer Divya... there used to be a time when Chennai was cleaner, saner, safer and unpolluted. Now blame it on the moffussilisation of the urban atmosphere! IT industry, BPOs... more exodus from villages and small towns into city... more mansion boys and less-cultured people... sudden money... mushrooming of thallu vandis and roadside dhabbas and kai endhi bhavans... more marriages and more families in cities as a result of these IT de-buggers camping in city... more households and tenants and flats and all that jazz... more need for maids and drivers and servants... more slums alongside more vertical slums (read apartments)... less decency... drivers pan chewing, maidservants tobacco spitting, left over bones from kai endhi bhavans, dogs and pigs... many more images. You see how the city has snowballed into andha patti and indha patti and this kuppam and that chery? This is what happens when degrees and alphabets after names assume importance instead of true education. In some sense the acculturisation of Chennai (and several other metropolises) and Reservation are mutually inclusive. Everyone is educated, but no one is cultured! The aim of governments must be to get 100% literacy (not necessarily 100% graduate nation) like Kerala did. Instead, here we are trying to get everyone everywhere into schools and colleges and go desperate to become docs and engineers and architects and whatnots. The day is not far off when ad agencies and show-biz guys are going to be pressurised into changing their viewpoints about requirements to be a model... so, we may yet reach a day when gory looks and unacceptable dentured mouths may become hall marks of beauty because these models with those qualities came through reservation! Haha! Fine nation, fine education, fine environmental consciousness.
"i'm only saying, look a little beyond - some slums are allocated on the banks of the cooum. how can you expect them to even understand what hygiene is all about?" is what you said Abhinav. I agree. Divya, listen... why do you think Mumbai is stuck with Monsoons so badly. They've had worse rains 4 decades back. It's the killing of Methi is it? The river that flows through the city or used to flow. Like Cooum? We have killed the earth's capacity to glean excess rain water by slushing the river through all the garbage courtesy those slum-dwellers on the banks. And the government and politicians and the civic authorities batted blind eye to it all because it suited their vote-bank building. Had you gotten a glimpse of Adyar River soon after those horrible rains? Even today, on low tides, when the estuary river bed is dry... as you pass by, look at the side of the river under the bridge on the same side as Malar Hospital... there is a huge broken branch of tree stuck. It came in the floods from somewhere in Ekaduthaangal side. And when the river is dry, you can see half chappals, branches, torn plastics etc etc. You think you and I would throw them? I have actually seen guys looking and dressed smart coming in cars, parking their Corollas and Qualis', getting out, lifting a sack of platic with garbage in it and drop it plop! on to the river!
@kk
"Everyone is educated, but no one is cultured"..think you hit the nail on the head...To me it seems normal that a person who's economically challenged has no time to worry about keeping the city clean. But to someone who has access to education and a lot else that makes life simpler, something as simple as not littering the roads should come quite easily. May we not end up living in a country when clean roads is a luxury...other nations have developed too, they indeed have thier share of the underpriveleged, but still, most places abroad seem cleaner...i dont know why...is keeping youself and your surroundings clean such an ordeal?
hey didnt realize u had a new post. yeah totally agree with the litter thing... iv thought about it a lot, especially cos the neighbourhood dumping spot is right outside my gate.
i feel that the nearer the place of disposal is to the place of manufacture and use, the more concerned we'l be.
as for argument for the sake of it, so what? :)
how do u sustain the quality of our posts, man?
Divya, I agree with you. But you know what they have done in other places? The so-called developed places that do still contain underdeveloped areas? They have done away with thatch huts and stuff... and the powers that be see to it that there are no sudden settlements that can squat. I guess the squatting scenario must change. The govt. is making efforts to create vertical ghettos. Like during Tsunami time. But these bastards who live in thatch settlements don't want to move. We need to break this mind-set of 'being used to'. Getting used to is only a matter of time. As a result they want to go back to their wont, because they don't want to change. Both the educated as well as the illiterate. Same mindsets, only different approach. The educated 1) either pay lip service and spit on the sly or blame it on the uncleanliness of public conveniences (I am sure you have observed those Sulabh International Toilets on the roads... all you gotta pay is 50 p. or 1 Rs. for what you use) or 2) act as though they are thick-skinned. I mean, I rave at a traffic offender next to me knowing he is on the wrong. He knows and pretends to look away. These are our citizens. I guess, to quote a movie song from an old MGR Movie, lyrics by Pattukottai Kalyanasundaram, "If the thieves don't change by themselves or want to change, there's no way we can purge the society of thieving". So, it basically begins with us. All us bloggers have to take initiative first and the next time you step on the street, pick the first litter you see and put it in those poor Onyx bins. But how much how long is a good question that I can read on your mind. True... we can't do beyond a point. But our little bit!
divya,
these things seep into the culture. if you have people taking a dump on the road, its very hard for someone like you and me to be conscious and throw a plastic cover in the nearest dustbin.
its highly unlikely that one half of the population - the uneducated - will litter because they have no option, and the other half will be very clean because they are educated.
kk,
as bharat puts it beautifully, the difference between 69 per cent and 20 per cent is 49 per cent.
anyways the point i made about the ford ikon is not about culture and etiquette - its about having access to toilets. the guy probably had a ten minute drive to go home and take a piss in his toilet bowl.
eternal flunky,
right again - it has to affect us for us to do anything about it, but i guess thats only natural... and thanks for your compliment.. i have no idea, if thats not a rhetorical question.
Shit, the comments on this post are posts in themselves. Lemme add to it...
Agreements and disagreements:
(a) garbage and filth are ready indicators of certain systemic inadequacies, yes, but what's the point of this brilliantly out-of-the-box advertising if people don't act on it? There's a nano-thin line between tolerance and apathy.
Filth, moreover, is unsanitary and the cause of thousands of diseases. Hygeine is the first pointer to a healthy society, and instead of sitting on our asses and pontificating we need to get up and get clean. Then again, I s'pose it's easy to just sit here and talk about it...
(b) As with any profession, even academics come in two categories - the armchair foolosophers who masturbate their lives away, and those braver others who don't let a little road dust get them down. I would point to intellectuals like Amartya Sen and Noam Chomsky who are able examples of academics who actively engage in, and greatly influence, integral social processes, while at the same time appending our collective grey cells by a few essential millimeters.
However, I really think this one was one of your best posts. Had fun reading it :)
kk,
too true... actually we can make a difference. i remember in school, my class decided to go and clean elliot's beach on weekends, and people came up to us, asked us what we were doing, and suddenly it became a big movement and today its a cleaner beach than most in the city.
but i'd like to establish that my post is not about cleaning up the city. i'm just saying, lets look beyond an issue and not just blindly say 'litter is bad' and stop with that, as divya has been doing.
eyefry,
you kind of tied the two strains of thought in my post together...
whats the use of arguing about litter if we're just arguing for argument's sake... lets go pick up some garbage as kk suggests and put it into the bin.
somehow, i don't see that happening, but lets hope.
good point about noam chomsky.. he was a great guy. but i would say those type of people are the exception rather than the rule.
also, i was talking personally - i am not the type who can constantly motivate himself. i need to be in a job which throws challenges at me, so its better i dont take up something like academics.
thanks for the compliment btw.
@abhinav
well litter is bad, and i still stick by that. So what do you expect, i walk all over town picking up plastic bags!!well maybe i can make a difference...but for how long?Its unfair to expect people who want the place clean alone to make an effort when the next second some moron's gonna open his car window and chuck something else out.It'll never end at this rate.
But that doesn't mean we say "well this is how we are...filthy and full of slums, but heck!we're proud of it" No. I'm not proud to see it... but atleast i feel alright about the fact that i do my bit in not adding to the litter...or tell people around me who litter not to do so.
@kk
i'm aware that countries more developed than ours have their share of under developed areas, but they still remain largely clean. And believe me, its not that our lot is completely oblivious to the concept of cleanliness..how come these same buggers dont spit on the roads, and every corner of a building when they step out this country?Our tolerance level is phenomenal. Stringent rules and harsh penalities for law breakers would ideally make quite a difference. But that wouldn't work here as well, thanks to our unfit, and easily lured police...
divya,
again i think you're missing the point. the post is not about litter - its about looking beyond a particular issue... looking at it differently.
im not saying lets be proud of our slums - i'm saying at least our slums are out in the open as opposed to western countries where the dirty stuff is huddled into a corner and cordoned off.
what you see is not often reality, thats the only point i'm making.
interesting write up. man u're great at creating blog storms/riots the consistency is what i find remarkable. looking forward to more of you're poems though.
Fair enough!
Yr right about the slums, and inscrutable Americans was a great read, Especially the ending ! :-
But, I dont quite agree with the whole "Argument for a purpose" conondrum, sometmes its fun to have an intelligent argument with someone, and you passively do tend to learn quite a bit, with it being stimulating as well.
Take the " Big Fight" for instance, its popularity is on the same lines, I dont really think they get to objective work on any issues discussed, but then watchin it or if ever bein a part of it can definitely be an enriching experience.
Good post abhinav,didn't look at it that way before...i guess you could say we indians are lucky to have reality shoved in our faces all the time,reminds us of our responsibilities in society.
But we also can't jus accept the fact and remain ignorant about it.Of course,since there is no 'proper solution',there's not much else we can do,is there?
Unless our CM's willing to replace those TV sets with free portable toilets... ;-)
@ abhinav... glad you agree with me finally.
@ varma e. flunky... good you put it clean: betwixt tolerance and apathy. just a small suggestion to both you guys. you remember your outbound tours to palmaner or wherever in school to learn to lead a do it yourself lives? forthnightly get aways? it's a similar situation. we need to start doing it consistently no matter what who says or how who reacts. they'll see the light of it. it's a question of sustaining not for days not for weeks but for as long as it takes! I guess that's my word for divya too. For how long... is a valid question. But processes don't end divya. If we believed in that extra energy it takes to get up from the chair to not being couch potato, that's what it takes. and we must. over a period you'll see the diff. start with those coffee cups people leave behind on lunch tables at office during breaks. they'll at some point feel guilty and automatically stop doing it, so you'll have made a difference. it's making them realise their apathy with your tolerance. that's what gandhi did to this country. consistent being at it.
karthik, abhu, others who blog here and do theatre too... why do you think am invariably the last guy to leave rehearsals? we need to clean up the space we inhabited to make it facile for someone else who comes next for whatever. that's the whole purpose of cleanliness... leave aside the hygiene factor for a while... it's being nice to each other for a healthy society. being polite in gestures and speech won't do, if we won't stoop everytime to pick up the crumpled daily calendar paper or the rolled up lock of hair on the floor in a corner or a coffee cup on the table!
"On a personal level, this is kind of why I chose journalism over academics, though I love the latter more - its so easy to get trapped in a bubble of abstraction, instead of getting your hands dirty with life. "
Neat man....I hate explaining myself to people.....and honestly you don’t have to....but I love the stance you have taken. I remember taking the same stance 3 years ago.
Dear (sir) KK,
I have not seen the entire thread of conversations here. As someone said they are becoming posts themselves.
I agree with you in toto. I think it's a question of being pleasant to the person next door, who happens to inhabit the same spaces, social, physical etc as the case may be. The point is even those who are hygeinic are dichotomous insofar as their personal health is concerned, which makes them apthetic towards what's happening to the rest of the people. Though at a lesser level it's the same isn't it? We watch news of people dying in scores to blasts, natural catastrophes and a spectrum of man-concocted and other contretemps! Yet as long as we - or someone close to us - gets caught in the debris we don't feel the pinch. Parochial attitude is the phrase... which needs to become defunct!
Because that attitude is obsolootely roobish... as Geoff Boycott would say... and as the post itself says!
not rhet... im ASKIN u
wow, this seems to be quite a long and heated argument!
i've been quite pampered lately, and haven't had to engage in profound discussion with bigots and idiots, (though i have had an argument on semiotics with a bi-polar bear who didn't let me speak)but it basically translates to arguments for argument's sake, except, unlike the sophists, there is nothing witty or dazzling about an argument with a fool. Because after a point, they don't care about your point of view; they're just got a rottweiler's grip on their conviction that theyre right and need to get you round to thinking like they do.
@rini,
thanks! but highly unlikely i am already burning up with embrassment over the previous poem... especially after sudhir brought it up in the company of three girls, two of whom i was meeting for the first time, and made it sound like i'm always at home on a saturday night.
@sudhir,
fair enough! but then if you're learning somethin passively, then that isnt argument for argument's sake - then it definitely is a profitable exercise.
im talking about when two people argue, refuse to see each other's point of view, but go on arguing anyway. its fucking senseless.
@poshgit,
actually, doesn't that make a lot of sense? i mean, portable toilets is slightly too much, but why not provide them sanitation instead of colour tvs?
of course the point is, i don't think he's gonna give them either.
@kk,
ya thats true, its all about the culture.. and i must admit, i'm a bit of a sloppy fellow, but who knows, maybe i'll change now.
@reflextions,
thanks... and good to hear that you did the same... what was that anyway? ok wait you say u hate explaining yourself to ppl.. heh alright i'll let u go then.
@srini
"as long as we - or someone close to us - gets caught in the debris we don't feel the pinch"
aren't u the sadist.
@eternal flunky,
just natural genius, i guess... heh... actually its just that i'm a bit of a loudmouth and have lots of opinions.. not necessarily a good thing.
@shruti
thats exactly the point im making! those are the ppl that really get me - the ones who are just so convinced that they are right and you are wrong... its no longer a discussion then.
and btw i am most honoured by yr condescension :D
Abhinav,
"We" was objective there. I am a realist. I am sad, too... lol
Interesting, if overlong, perspective on the reservation issue:
Why are we Opposed to Reservations?
Article by Prof Rahul Varman , IIT Kanpur.
I teach at one of the IITs, and off late my students, colleagues, friends and relatives have been sending me mails, organising meetings, writing petitions, initiating e-tirades, etc. against the recent MHRD announcement and generally taking it for granted that I'll join them in their protests. Each time they are taken by surprise when I decline their offer, try to mumble something as to why I do not agree with them, or sometimes simply keep quiet if I have the advantage of an impersonal medium like the email. But increasingly it has been hard to shrug the whole issue away - every time I open my mail box, or as I walk along the corridor, and even as I bid farewell to my students of the outgoing batch, the sentiment against reservations seem to be thick in the air intermixed with the feeling of unease when one does not make the 'right' noises. And therefore I'll try to articulate at some length as to why I disagree with the 'anti-reservationists', (the issue is
too complicated for a mere agree/ disagree vote); in spite of having little sympathy with MHRD and their 'motivated' methods.
Let me begin with an incident which occurred when I had just joined IITK way back in 1994. We were staying in the guest house then and some census officials knocked on our door one afternoon to make enquiries for filling up a questionnaire. On being asked about my caste my wife expressed her unawareness. When a brief consultation with each other trying to 'categorise' my surname did not yield any answer, the main person resolved the issue in an ingenious way. After confirming that I was a faculty member, he told his associate in quiet confidence, "likh do, Brahman honge". The point that I want to stress here is that it is not suddenly that either Mr. Arjun Singh today, or 16 years earlier Mr. B P Mandal, suddenly injected the caste divisions into our society (or, for that matter, in the elite educational institutes) as is being alleged by those against the reservations. The caste divide very much exists everywhere in our society and especially so in any of
these elite institutes; my claim would be borne out by the names on the doors along the corridors in the faculty corridors or during the roll call in any of the class rooms. Only thing is that those who are on the right side of the divide can choose to ignore it. This will also be borne out by various kinds of statistics if we bother to look at them.
Some say that instead of caste we should talk about the economic deprivation and by bringing caste reservations we'll only bring in more divisiveness. I do not understand this argument; it is like saying that we should not address the gender oppression as an issue primarily concerning women, as men also have been sometimes oppressed; or that racial discrimination is not about the blacks and Hispanics in the US, as whites also are sometimes on the receiving end. Further, as if acknowledgement of this form of discrimination(s), instead of being a logical step towards affirmative action, would actually promote them. Coming back to reservations in the present context, it is true that a lot of men and upper castes are also oppressed, but here we are talking about a specific systemic historical subjugation of a massive magnitude, at present perhaps involving more than half a billion people. Reservations may not be answer to this problem but the issue cannot be
addressed by bringing in every other kind of discrimination also while attempting to address this issue.
Caste problem can be solved only by addressing caste issues; similarly if there are other discriminations that exist in the society (and of course they do) they need to be identified and addressed too, not substituting one form of redressal for the other. Further if the social and economic equity spreads it will not harden the caste identity but loosen it as I'll argue further through the experience of the southern states later.
Of course the most important argument of those protesting is that it is against the 'merit', that it is going to keep the 'meritorious' students out and bring in lesser students due to reservations, which in turn will 'lower' the standards and destroy the excellence of such institutes, which has been so assiduously and precariously cultivated as a part of the post colonial nation building project. Now this argument is at various levels and we can examine various parts of it one by one.
The first part of the above argument is that reservations will bring students who lack merit and hence will lower the standards of the elite institutions; hence they should be kept away from such reservations. The point is that what does this merit really mean? In any exam where lakhs appear and only thousands get selected, it is not that rest are 'bad' but only that there are very limited opportunities. But does it mean that if we go down in the performance list of the exams, others are incapable of undergoing the training and we as an institution are incapable of teaching them in whatever it takes to make them a good professional? Remember we are talking of half a billion people when we say 'backwards'. Can't we find handful out of them who have the 'capability' to undergo the required training? To me the argument does not sound very different from the ancient times where by their birth a large number were excluded from learning Sanskrit or entering the
temples. It is very much like Dronacharya refusing admission to Eklavya. Moreover, we do not seem to even recognise the odds that the children from disadvantaged face; my friend who is from a village 100 kms from Kanpur tells me that his village has just one school where hundreds study across classes with one 18 year old teacher for all the classes put together! And the point is that, even in this school, dalit children are not even allowed to drink from the public pot kept for the rest of the children. In contrast, is it merit when we see that overwhelming majority of those who clear the JEE and CAT are able to do so, only after spending huge resources, money and time, as will be borne out from the newspapers inserts everyday and hoardings at every corner in vast urban parts of the country? What this shows is the singular lack of opportunities and the desperation of educated youth to find a berth in the elite institutions that will catapult them into a
different social and economic orbit. Now the point is that these berths are being reserved in one way so far, the question is are we ready to alter that process?
If something sets the elite institutions apart it is the enormous resources that they attract, both human as well as material. And I do not see what stops such individuals who enter even after reservations from becoming good professionals given proper nurturing and resources. As far as failing of students in such institutes is concerned we'll find that students of all categories make such a list as the overwhelming reason for that is either lack of motivation and/ or the social context and not the lack of ability. Many students after clearing JEE, CAT, etc. lose the motivation to do well - they stop going to classes and studying and look for other expressions in life and simply feel alienated with the academics. The second reason is that many students simply find it hard to adjust to a westernised - elite culture of these institutions, especially those who come from rural or small town background. Since they are not able to find the right kind of supporting
network of friends and peers they are not able to perform as a lot of learning in such institutions is collective. Many of the reserved category students have to further bear the stigma of coming through 'quota', of not being good enough and hence they get into a shell and are more likely to find themselves alienated, which finally reflects on their performance. If this is so, then what is required is more supporting systems within institutions and not stopping them at the gates.
As a teacher I have also seen cases where within a semester or two some of the so called 'poor students' are completely transformed. They have been able to adjust to the requirements of the system and flourish, may be with the help of a supporting friend, or a patient teacher, or through an activity where they could express themselves, or a combination of the above. Moreover if these institutes are not only abut learning inside the class as we never tire telling the fresh students, but about becoming a complete professional as so many alumni will vouch for, and transforming a teenager into a professional who is in touch with her surroundings, then of course this diversity can do wonders to the overall learning inside and outside the class rooms. I have learnt so much from those of my students who are different from my protected middle class upbringing - a village in eastern UP, a small town in Bihar, a construction site in Kerala, and so on. Though I
understand nothing about the medical education, but I am sure if a student can bring his experience of a Chattisgarh village, it can contribute hugely to the real education in the class.
One can at this point ask a further question, is merit all about passing exams? After all, are the exams a means or an end? If the exams are means to look for ability to make better engineers, doctors and managers, then can there be better methods to look for such ability? After all in my first engineering class I was told that a good engineer is the one who can produce the best out of the least resources and similarly, management is supposed to find one's way in an uncertain situation - or allocate scarce resources in the most optimal way possible. If that is so, whatever I have seen of our deprived masses (of which overwhelming majority belongs to the backward, dalit castes or adivasis), they have the astonishing capacity to make something productive from almost next to nothing! For the last few years I have been studying small industry clusters, like Moradabad brass, Varanasi silk and Kanpur leather. Put together (all the clusters in the country), they
are exporting more than the IT sector and their cumulative employment will be several times of the whole of IT industry. In all these clusters they operate with miniscule resources - small investment, no electricity, forget about air-conditioning, non existent roads, lack of water, and little formal education. These clusters are primarily constituted of these so called backward/dalit castes and are truly a tribute to the genius that our society is. But in spite of centuries of excellence these communities have hardly produced any formal 'engineers', 'doctors' and 'managers', and conversely these elite institutions have not developed any linkages with such industries and their people.
This brings me to a further question, what do 'meritorious' students from these institutions do when they pass out? I recall what Srilata Swaminathan, the noted activist, had said at the beginning of her talk at IIMA in the early 1990s (I at the time was a student there), "I am told that this is the cream of the country, and what do you do, sell soaps and toothpastes (ITC, HLL, etc. were the most coveted recruiters those days)?". There was hushed silence in a room full of students and faculty. I remember in the mid-90s my sense of disbelief, when I was the placement coordinator for my department, the HR manager of one of the big three Indian IT companies told me, "as long as somebody can recognise a keyboard we take him" in response to my query about what they sought in a potential employee. Remember this company over the years has employed thousands of IIT-IIM engineers - managers. As a child I remember the famous surgeon in my home town, who would first cut
up a patient and then renegotiate the price with the relatives, before proceeding with the surgery! Or everywhere around me I find 'meritorious' doctors employed in public hospitals, drawing comfortable salaries and doing roaring private practice! You are not even required to turn up in the village health centre even once if you have a rural posting. If the majority of our people usually have to do with the village quack, they would not mind a 'slightly less meritorious doctor' coming to take care of them, instead of finding solace in the fact that super-specialised doctors are ensuring that the elite of our country have no wrinkles, and such grave ailments.
I recall when some students from IITK, almost all of them belonging to the North from UP to MP to Orissa, went to participate in post Tsunami relief work in Tamil Nadu. After they came back the overwhelming feeling was this difference from the North that "things are different over there and they work!" My relatives and acquaintances prefer to go down south when they are seriously unwell and not to Delhi or Lucknow. Remember this is the same place which has implemented the 'quota' much before Mandal and much beyond it too. I hear of far less caste strife in Tamil Nadu than in UP where caste based reservations have been implemented for such a long time - it does not seem to have furthered the caste based identities in South into a full fledged war like Bihar and UP. Point is 'merit' is not about stopping somebody at the gates or throwing them out of these seats of learning, but in creating robust institutions which can cultivate and nurture the talent with
all the complexities of a vast and disparate society that we are.
Let's put the creamy layer argument also in perspective now. Point is that such elite education which has so many barriers - expensive and time consuming coaching, expensive education, elite culture, etc. is under the present order going to be a preserve only of a select few. All we are saying is whether it is going to be the preserve of a few higher castes or some of the other castes can also find an entry. Even if it is backward IAS's daughter, so be it, finally many others are also IAS's wards, so how does it make a difference? As has been rightly said by the critiques, it's a populist measure for the votes. etc. But so is every single policy of the govt. and so it will be in a 'vote bank democracy' - either for the votes directly, or for generating resources for the next election. When an Ambani or an Enron is granted abominable concessions, why don't we come on streets and say, "it is for money for the next elections.”
The difficulty perhaps is that we are only against certain kinds of reservation. When an Ambani becomes a CEO, when a Gandhi becomes a minister, we do not say it is against merit, when a professor whose son is not able to qualify JEE, is still able to send her child abroad for higher studies, we do not say it is reservation, when only Valmikis do all the cleaning work at IITK we do not say it is reservation, the point that we need to ponder is that why is it that we are only against certain kind of reservation and for certain kind of merit?
Finally for those of us who think that the present reservation exercise is ornamental and they would like to do something more basic and lasting, I recommend a reading of the Mandal report - they will find that the report goes to some length to capture the socio-economic indicators in understanding and classifying 'backwards'. Moreover reservation is a small part of their recommendation which includes things like special coaching for the disadvantaged to basic issues like land reforms. The difficulty is that in all these years, only the naxalite movement seem to have taken up some of the radical suggestions of the Mandal Commission! Meanwhile I have a question for those whose problem is the hasty implementation, that "how can we implement MHRD's recommendations so suddenly?" After all, the report has been available for debate, discussion, modification and implementation for all these 16 years! Why is it that we have suddenly woken up to bother about primary -
secondary education as well as the economic upliftment of the masses, only when the government has started acting in its own bumbling ways? As far as I know, no academic body or business institutions like CII has debated these issues and no committees have been setup to examine the Mandal report all this while. Finally, history is catching up in its own imperfect ways. We need to ponder whether these institutions are meant only for supplying cheap labour for the American corporations. If they have to be more than that, the time has come for us to be self critical and look beyond the knee jerk response to the present quagmire.
Two points:
1) Which "west" or "America" are we talking about? Appalachia--white hillbilly land, struck by poverty? Big cities that dazzle with riches but also concentrate minorities and undocumented workers? Oregon, where medical marjuana is legal and 5% of the US's old forest is located (preservation efforts actually work there, unlike in Texas, where people drink Budweiser and carry guns while driving)? A shithole city in the midwest where there's as clear a demarcation between black town ghetto and white town suburb as there is in any former colony? Florida, where rich white folk retire? How about New Orleans? If we objectify the "west" the same way as the Europeans and Americans stereotype the east, we miss a lot of the complexities: class and race struggle, poverty, discrimination that goes on pretty much everywhere. Also, there may be less litter on the streets in the US, but the packaging, the plastic bags, the obscene land fills, the petrol consumption, make the US the largest producer of toxic wastes in the world.
2) Abhinav, would you have commented on the delicious sambar sadam if you ate in a non-dalit household? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem mildly surprised that dalits eat the same things as nondalits... Girish Karnad once gave a speech on Marathi Dalit writer Limbale, and he asked the same thing of the translator who commented on the generous hospitality of dalit households.
Abhinav, it's good to read your blog again.
reminds me of a program in MTV bakra where they caught a guy on cam pissing on the roadside after parking his santro. They cleanly showed his car numnber on T.V.
They went up to him and asked "Aap aisa kyon karte ho, isn't this wrong". The guy went ballistic and tried to hit the reporter and snatch the tape.
This, according to me is the best way to deal with people who have absolutely no scant regard for cleanliness and hygiene....
srini,
:P
abhorigine,
a fascinating article - people on the right side of the divide refuse to see the divide - i thought that was a brilliant comment, quite a quotable quote...
f2f,
i wasn't surprised that we got sambar sadam - rather i was trying to say that the meal was a simple one - only sambar sadam and appalam... no vegetable or raitha or anything else, and yet it was a satisfying meal.. is what i was trying to say.
ganesh,
thanks for visiting my blog... but i dont know, i dont know why so many people have picked one fairly insignificant part of my blog - that of people who are not cultured enough to piss at home - and gone on about it... i'm sure there's a lesson there, but im not smart enough to pick it up.
Abhinav,
I stand corrected. I got lost hiking the other day and had a heavy backpack and after seven hours of walking up and down hill, water was a luxury. So I get it about the sambar sadam.
fair enough! btw, that was a beautiful comment.. really well put. puts things in perspective. i guess its easy to live in ignorance of those things in the US isnt it?
seems our lil blogger circle's a bit constipated...
bravo
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